1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:23,890 --> 00:00:25,624 [Gwen] The dream starts like this. 4 00:00:28,294 --> 00:00:31,530 I see myself getting out of the water 5 00:00:39,105 --> 00:00:42,908 and I see somebody, I can't see it very clearly, 6 00:00:42,942 --> 00:00:45,778 but I see a person from the back. 7 00:00:49,449 --> 00:00:50,849 I follow him. 8 00:00:57,791 --> 00:01:00,292 And then I see a lot of people 9 00:01:00,326 --> 00:01:01,860 standing in the communal showers. 10 00:01:02,562 --> 00:01:03,862 Nobody is looking at me. 11 00:01:11,071 --> 00:01:16,041 There's a little hallway with four bathroom stalls. 12 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:19,578 After those four regular bathroom doors, 13 00:01:19,612 --> 00:01:20,779 there's a big door. 14 00:01:28,688 --> 00:01:31,256 From the moment I opened the door, 15 00:01:31,291 --> 00:01:33,425 it's like things moved really quickly. 16 00:01:34,694 --> 00:01:35,861 [water running] 17 00:01:42,669 --> 00:01:45,270 At that moment, I see just a lot of blood. 18 00:01:47,107 --> 00:01:48,941 It's everywhere and I panicked. 19 00:01:58,618 --> 00:02:01,820 How can something that wasn't scary at the time 20 00:02:01,855 --> 00:02:02,988 be so scary later? 21 00:02:03,022 --> 00:02:06,125 Like, how can I wake up at night now being terrified, 22 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:07,659 even though back then it was like, 23 00:02:07,694 --> 00:02:10,095 "All right, let's go into the shower. Let's just do this." 24 00:02:25,678 --> 00:02:28,113 My mom always called me "Waterrat." 25 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:31,416 Literally, It'd be a water rat. 26 00:02:31,451 --> 00:02:33,118 That's somebody who just always wants 27 00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:34,019 to be in the water. 28 00:02:35,788 --> 00:02:38,423 I always loved swimming, I was always in the water. 29 00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:47,232 I grew up in a small town in Southern Holland, 30 00:02:47,267 --> 00:02:49,768 in what I would call a very normal family. 31 00:02:49,802 --> 00:02:52,237 I had loving parents, I had an older brother. 32 00:02:54,674 --> 00:02:56,642 One of my favorite memories growing up 33 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:58,777 was getting together for Easter 34 00:02:58,811 --> 00:03:00,045 and it'd be the whole family 35 00:03:00,079 --> 00:03:01,813 and we would do this Eastern egg hunt 36 00:03:01,848 --> 00:03:03,949 and I would always try to beat my cousins, 37 00:03:03,983 --> 00:03:06,985 usually not successfully cause I was the smallest. 38 00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,520 I was the youngest one in the family. 39 00:03:13,726 --> 00:03:15,994 My childhood was loving, it was happy. 40 00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:17,062 It was comfortable. 41 00:03:29,342 --> 00:03:30,175 Yeah. 42 00:04:25,398 --> 00:04:27,065 The first memory I have, 43 00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:29,101 we were biking to a swim camp. 44 00:04:30,536 --> 00:04:33,438 I would bike and he would bike next to me, 45 00:04:33,473 --> 00:04:35,374 and it was very clear that his focus 46 00:04:35,408 --> 00:04:36,908 was entirely on me. 47 00:04:37,877 --> 00:04:39,778 And that felt really nice. 48 00:04:39,812 --> 00:04:41,280 [alarm goes off] 49 00:04:46,653 --> 00:04:49,087 He was an adult that was swimming on my team, 50 00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:51,890 but would also coach us when the head couch was out. 51 00:04:53,826 --> 00:04:56,728 "And I just thought, " Wow, why is this big swimmer, 52 00:04:56,763 --> 00:04:59,631 this cool guy, that everybody has respect for... 53 00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:01,400 why does he put so much emphasis 54 00:05:01,434 --> 00:05:02,567 on getting to know me? 55 00:05:02,602 --> 00:05:04,703 "And why is he asking me all these questions?" 56 00:05:05,705 --> 00:05:08,073 I just felt like he really cared, 57 00:05:08,107 --> 00:05:09,675 and he became my best friend. 58 00:05:26,726 --> 00:05:28,627 There were moments where I was afraid of him, 59 00:05:28,661 --> 00:05:30,128 but most of the time I wasn't 60 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:32,831 and that just feels off. That feels weird. 61 00:05:32,865 --> 00:05:35,100 It feels like if somebody hurts you, 62 00:05:35,134 --> 00:05:36,835 you should be afraid of them 63 00:05:36,869 --> 00:05:39,438 and you should be angry at them afterward. 64 00:05:39,472 --> 00:05:42,808 So, when you don't feel anger and you don't feel... 65 00:05:44,711 --> 00:05:47,145 like you were afraid of them 66 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:49,948 then it must not be something that was wrong. 67 00:05:49,982 --> 00:05:52,484 It's not logical. 68 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:18,944 [starts crying] 69 00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:35,227 My boyfriend, actually, he said, 70 00:06:35,261 --> 00:06:37,162 "I think you need to not run away from it 71 00:06:37,196 --> 00:06:39,264 and really try to face it." 72 00:06:41,534 --> 00:06:45,704 Actually, what a lot of people don't realize is how much traumatic is 73 00:06:45,738 --> 00:06:48,907 with something that happens so long ago. 74 00:06:48,941 --> 00:06:50,475 Well, even 18 years later, 75 00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:53,812 almost every week that something happens that, like, 76 00:06:53,846 --> 00:06:58,116 triggers some, like, tears or even panics. 77 00:07:02,522 --> 00:07:06,525 [Gwen] I know I need help. So I started calling experts. 78 00:07:07,627 --> 00:07:09,561 [phone rings] 79 00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:13,131 Thank you for making the time to chat. Hey, how are you? 80 00:07:13,166 --> 00:07:15,400 He was both an older teammate 81 00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:18,069 and then he would swap in for the coach. 82 00:07:18,104 --> 00:07:21,706 So he would get me gifts and cards and letters, 83 00:07:21,741 --> 00:07:25,076 and he would say, "Gosh, you... I know you're 11, 84 00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:29,247 but you're actually 18 in the way that you behave." 85 00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:32,851 And after hearing my story, they all said the same thing. 86 00:07:33,419 --> 00:07:34,786 It's classic grooming. 87 00:07:34,821 --> 00:07:36,988 I started thinking, "What's this grooming thing?" 88 00:07:37,023 --> 00:07:39,524 I feel like it's something that I really need to understand. 89 00:07:49,936 --> 00:07:52,437 [Oprah] Most kids are molested by people that they trust. 90 00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:55,373 Either a family member or a close friend. 91 00:07:55,408 --> 00:07:57,542 That is how it happens, 92 00:07:57,577 --> 00:08:00,512 and the grooming is what makes it possible. 93 00:08:00,546 --> 00:08:01,446 I liked him 94 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:02,881 and I would tell him I liked him, 95 00:08:02,915 --> 00:08:04,082 and I liked the attention. 96 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:07,853 He makes the child feel that the child is a part of it. 97 00:08:07,887 --> 00:08:09,654 [Gwen] I thought that because I liked him 98 00:08:09,689 --> 00:08:11,256 it wasn't really abuse. 99 00:08:11,991 --> 00:08:13,291 But maybe it was. 100 00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:16,862 Confusion is actually the biggest thing 101 00:08:16,896 --> 00:08:19,598 that keeps people powerless. 102 00:08:25,738 --> 00:08:27,973 After learning about grooming, 103 00:08:28,007 --> 00:08:32,310 I was, first of all, really angry. 104 00:08:32,345 --> 00:08:34,946 [Gwen] Why had I never heard from this before? 105 00:08:34,981 --> 00:08:36,882 Why don't we all know about this? 106 00:08:38,417 --> 00:08:41,353 So I decided that I wanted to make a film. 107 00:08:43,155 --> 00:08:45,790 This is what I need to do, and this is a story 108 00:08:45,825 --> 00:08:48,159 that I can tell because I went through it. 109 00:09:19,292 --> 00:09:21,126 [man] Okay, let me know when you're good. 110 00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:22,427 Hey, Barbi. 111 00:09:24,297 --> 00:09:25,463 [man] And it's all yours. 112 00:09:25,498 --> 00:09:28,266 What happened when you learned what grooming was? 113 00:09:28,301 --> 00:09:30,035 [Barbi] When I learned about grooming, 114 00:09:30,069 --> 00:09:33,038 I started really reflecting back 115 00:09:33,072 --> 00:09:34,406 and remembering, 116 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,242 "wow, like, all these incidents 117 00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:40,378 that I thought were joyful and fun, he... 118 00:09:40,413 --> 00:09:42,447 he was grooming me. 119 00:09:42,481 --> 00:09:45,784 He was setting me up for this abuse. 120 00:09:48,554 --> 00:09:49,955 I think he targeted me 121 00:09:49,989 --> 00:09:54,693 because he could spot my desire to please. 122 00:09:54,727 --> 00:09:57,529 It was hard for me to express myself 123 00:09:57,563 --> 00:10:00,231 and I never really felt like I fit in. 124 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,933 I was really quiet. 125 00:10:01,968 --> 00:10:04,669 I really kept to myself. 126 00:10:04,704 --> 00:10:07,505 I think I was always quiet and sort of reserved, 127 00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:11,376 and always had, like, a book that I would be reading. 128 00:10:11,410 --> 00:10:13,011 My parents fought constantly 129 00:10:13,045 --> 00:10:15,080 about finances and lack of money. 130 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:19,150 That constant emotional upheaval within the house 131 00:10:19,986 --> 00:10:23,121 made me feel very vulnerable. 132 00:10:23,155 --> 00:10:26,391 What I started to realize is that what happened to me 133 00:10:26,425 --> 00:10:28,793 wasn't the exemption, it was the rule. 134 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,609 [Andy] I would suggest you consider proxy clarification 135 00:10:44,644 --> 00:10:47,379 and what happens is you take the victim, 136 00:10:47,413 --> 00:10:51,583 have an offender match them who's really in recovery 137 00:10:51,617 --> 00:10:54,319 and have them just have a conversation. 138 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,795 There's a woman who called me one day after I did a workshop 139 00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:05,130 and she said, 140 00:11:05,164 --> 00:11:07,966 "Could you hook me up with one of these proxy clarifications?" 141 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,933 We did it, 142 00:11:08,968 --> 00:11:11,936 and 'til she died, I got a card every year 143 00:11:11,971 --> 00:11:13,772 and the essence of what she said was, 144 00:11:13,806 --> 00:11:15,573 "I felt responsibility, 145 00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:17,609 like, almost a physical sensation of it 146 00:11:17,643 --> 00:11:18,977 lifting from me, 147 00:11:19,011 --> 00:11:20,945 and I finally felt free at last." 148 00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:03,421 [man] Up and here you go. 149 00:12:04,623 --> 00:12:06,157 Okay. 150 00:12:06,192 --> 00:12:08,760 This is file 1. Mark, cameras A and B. 151 00:12:10,463 --> 00:12:12,964 Okay, give me about 30 seconds in here. 152 00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,336 [Gwen] Okay, it's good? Awesome. 153 00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:20,305 What are the steps that you go through 154 00:12:20,339 --> 00:12:23,241 when you would groom a child? 155 00:12:23,275 --> 00:12:25,677 [Dennis] Well, I was very confident in my grooming. 156 00:12:25,711 --> 00:12:26,978 I was very confident 157 00:12:27,012 --> 00:12:28,847 that I could make a kid like me. 158 00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:42,360 First of all, you have to pick the right child. 159 00:12:43,562 --> 00:12:46,030 You know, the one you feel most comfortable with. 160 00:12:46,065 --> 00:12:48,666 The one that you heard things about him in the family, 161 00:12:48,701 --> 00:12:50,301 that's may be having a hard time. 162 00:12:50,336 --> 00:12:53,071 "Who do I think I could train?" 163 00:12:53,105 --> 00:12:54,372 I was very trusting. 164 00:12:54,406 --> 00:12:56,040 - Insolated. - Alone. 165 00:12:56,075 --> 00:12:57,008 Quiet. 166 00:12:57,042 --> 00:12:58,109 On my own a little bit. 167 00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:04,149 [Gwen] I was an insecure little girl. 168 00:13:04,183 --> 00:13:06,718 My body language probably showed up a little bit. 169 00:13:06,752 --> 00:13:09,788 I was really struggling with who I was, 170 00:13:09,822 --> 00:13:12,724 why were my friends not accepting me. 171 00:13:12,758 --> 00:13:15,393 I was really looking for somebody 172 00:13:15,427 --> 00:13:16,528 that cared for me. 173 00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:21,900 [Jim] Can you spot the sex offender? 174 00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:25,570 Is it Mr. Businessman here or is it Deathroll tall guy? 175 00:13:25,604 --> 00:13:28,206 The answer is yes, no, both, maybe, I don't know. 176 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,209 So, how does a sex offender groom a victim? 177 00:13:31,243 --> 00:13:33,278 Adolescent female victims tell us, 178 00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:35,647 "He was my best friend." 179 00:13:35,681 --> 00:13:38,750 "I'm going to do things and buy things for you." 180 00:13:38,784 --> 00:13:40,385 "I'm going to send you cards, 181 00:13:40,419 --> 00:13:43,655 I'm going to give you little bracelets 182 00:13:43,689 --> 00:13:45,557 or I'm going to send you flowers. 183 00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:47,158 I'm going to give you things." 184 00:13:47,193 --> 00:13:49,127 [Gwen] As you were talking, I was remembering 185 00:13:49,161 --> 00:13:51,329 the letters and the cards that he would give me, 186 00:13:51,363 --> 00:13:53,865 and it almost felt like you were telling my story. 187 00:13:53,933 --> 00:13:57,068 Guess I always viewed him as somebody who just made 188 00:13:57,102 --> 00:13:58,069 a little misstep 189 00:13:58,103 --> 00:14:00,772 and he just happened to fall in love with me 190 00:14:00,806 --> 00:14:02,173 at the wrong time. 191 00:14:02,208 --> 00:14:05,476 [Jim] If the offender has done their job grooming, 192 00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:07,979 it's going to feel like, "I was special to him." 193 00:14:08,013 --> 00:14:10,815 You know, you are one of many who are special to him. 194 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,517 - That's the issue. - Do you think that? 195 00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:14,953 From what I know about your case, I can almost assure you 196 00:14:14,987 --> 00:14:16,721 there were other victims out there. 197 00:14:16,755 --> 00:14:18,823 Absolutely other victims. 198 00:14:18,858 --> 00:14:20,925 His grooming process was very smooth. 199 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:22,660 Very smooth. 200 00:14:23,395 --> 00:14:25,396 You mentioned you have letters, 201 00:14:25,431 --> 00:14:29,000 I think that if we look at those letters, 202 00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:30,835 that we're going to see that that process 203 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:32,537 is very well done. 204 00:14:32,571 --> 00:14:35,874 You don't get to be that good at it by accident. 205 00:14:35,908 --> 00:14:38,476 [Jim] You get to be that good at it through practice. 206 00:14:38,510 --> 00:14:41,679 I've always firmly believe it was just me. 207 00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:43,882 That he would never do this to someone else, 208 00:14:43,916 --> 00:14:45,516 and I've never really thought 209 00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:47,719 about there being other victims. 210 00:14:47,753 --> 00:14:49,487 [Gwen] And it changes the story. 211 00:14:49,521 --> 00:14:52,924 So, I'm considering potentially going to Holland 212 00:14:54,026 --> 00:14:57,362 to talk to my family and maybe talk to the police. 213 00:14:57,396 --> 00:14:58,630 Your family knows nothing? 214 00:14:58,664 --> 00:15:00,832 [Gwen] When I was starting to get all these dreams, 215 00:15:00,866 --> 00:15:02,934 and I remembered what had happened, 216 00:15:02,968 --> 00:15:04,102 I actually told them. 217 00:15:04,136 --> 00:15:05,503 [Jim] And how long ago was that? 218 00:15:05,537 --> 00:15:06,905 That's when I was about 17. 219 00:15:06,939 --> 00:15:08,339 - [Jim] Okay. - So, long time ago. 220 00:15:08,374 --> 00:15:10,608 - [Jim] So, where did that happened? - The "where." 221 00:15:10,643 --> 00:15:12,210 So we had one conversation at night, 222 00:15:12,244 --> 00:15:14,412 and I remember my dad running out on the street 223 00:15:14,446 --> 00:15:17,181 with a baseball bat and he was like, "I'm going to kill him." 224 00:15:17,216 --> 00:15:19,717 And, like, so, so, so angry. 225 00:15:19,752 --> 00:15:21,619 And then we never talked about it again. 226 00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:24,188 The location while thinking about this 227 00:15:24,223 --> 00:15:26,824 is going to be a heck of a trigger. 228 00:15:28,727 --> 00:15:32,063 Expect to be affected a lot. 229 00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:46,277 [Gwen] I'm going to Holland, actually, in two days. 230 00:15:46,312 --> 00:15:48,346 It makes me very nervous, cause on the one hand, 231 00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:51,215 I feel a lot of conviction and I feel a lot of power 232 00:15:51,250 --> 00:15:53,418 and, like, I need to go do this and I need to, 233 00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:56,521 you know, make sure that there's no other people and... 234 00:15:56,555 --> 00:15:58,389 But then there's other days when I think, 235 00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:00,792 "But I don't want to mess up his life. 236 00:16:00,826 --> 00:16:01,926 What if he's married?" 237 00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:04,862 I've got no idea where he is. I don't know anything 238 00:16:04,897 --> 00:16:06,397 about what has happened to him. 239 00:16:12,938 --> 00:16:15,907 I have not said his name in 20 years. 240 00:16:15,941 --> 00:16:19,510 I've never been able to look him up, 241 00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:20,678 I've never... I don't know. 242 00:16:20,713 --> 00:16:23,781 It's like a physical block. 243 00:16:23,816 --> 00:16:27,051 But I need to cause I do want to know before I go. 244 00:16:27,119 --> 00:16:29,354 I want to have a little bit of information. 245 00:16:29,388 --> 00:16:33,024 I'm really afraid to see a picture. 246 00:16:33,058 --> 00:16:35,994 I don't... I really don't want to see his face. 247 00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,466 I really don't know if I want to. 248 00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:47,505 [sighs] 249 00:16:50,109 --> 00:16:52,210 I can't even... I don't want to see it. 250 00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:53,711 [sighs] 251 00:16:58,617 --> 00:16:59,484 [sighs] 252 00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:11,696 He showed up. 253 00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:31,049 [starts crying harder] 254 00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:36,554 It makes you want to throw up. 255 00:17:39,591 --> 00:17:42,226 I don't know. I guess I started questioning it again 256 00:17:42,261 --> 00:17:45,430 and start thinking, "was it just me? Was it..." 257 00:17:47,633 --> 00:17:49,200 "Did you not do anything wrong?" 258 00:17:52,905 --> 00:17:55,239 Yeah, I just want to make sure it doesn't happen again 259 00:17:56,175 --> 00:17:57,241 to other people. 260 00:17:59,678 --> 00:18:01,312 [Harriet] You have to organize 261 00:18:02,514 --> 00:18:06,084 and accept the disorganization about what you feel. 262 00:18:06,852 --> 00:18:08,619 In that case, it's a step. 263 00:18:09,121 --> 00:18:10,088 It's progress. 264 00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:19,263 [Gwen] After 20 years, the memories of my childhood 265 00:18:19,298 --> 00:18:21,599 are just messy and blurry and incomplete. 266 00:18:24,503 --> 00:18:26,637 I want to have a better picture of what happened. 267 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,942 Mostly I'm going to go to Holland to speak with my family 268 00:18:30,976 --> 00:18:33,311 after so many years of silence. 269 00:18:33,345 --> 00:18:34,545 This is the one thing 270 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:37,415 that feels like it's still standing in between us. 271 00:18:41,854 --> 00:18:44,255 I am going to look for the letters. 272 00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:47,191 They should all be in this little cabinet. 273 00:18:49,194 --> 00:18:51,162 But is possible my parents found them 274 00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:52,830 at some point and threw them out. 275 00:19:01,006 --> 00:19:04,709 I want to report publicly if I can do it. 276 00:19:04,743 --> 00:19:06,878 It's still something that I'm not sure of. 277 00:19:06,912 --> 00:19:09,847 I think it depends on the conversations 278 00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:10,781 I'm going to have. 279 00:19:10,816 --> 00:19:12,350 It's going to depend on the letters, 280 00:19:12,384 --> 00:19:14,352 it's going to depend on how I feel in the moment. 281 00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:49,193 [Asia] He also groomed my family. 282 00:23:49,227 --> 00:23:52,196 Like, for example, he asked my dad for piano lessons. 283 00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:55,499 He had a sister into our dance club. 284 00:23:55,534 --> 00:23:57,568 And I asked my mom recently, I was like, 285 00:23:57,602 --> 00:23:59,804 "Why did you let me go with him?" 286 00:23:59,838 --> 00:24:00,905 Like, "He was a man." 287 00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:03,274 Like, "Didn't you think it was weird that some man 288 00:24:03,308 --> 00:24:05,443 wanted to spend time with your 5-year-old?" 289 00:24:05,477 --> 00:24:07,778 And she was like, "No, you wanted to go," 290 00:24:07,813 --> 00:24:08,913 and you were so happy. 291 00:24:08,947 --> 00:24:11,615 "You know, I didn't think anything was going on." 292 00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:14,385 Like, he didn't set off that vibe. 293 00:24:14,419 --> 00:24:17,321 He didn't set off on a pedophile vibe. 294 00:24:17,355 --> 00:24:20,791 Always having priests come to our home 295 00:24:20,826 --> 00:24:23,961 was like Jesus Christ himself was in our house. 296 00:24:23,995 --> 00:24:28,399 [Keith] He infiltrated our family structure in such a way. 297 00:24:28,433 --> 00:24:30,901 I mean, my parents went to confession to him. 298 00:24:30,936 --> 00:24:32,803 He knew what all their sins were. 299 00:25:02,701 --> 00:25:04,602 [Gwen] This is May, '97. 300 00:25:04,636 --> 00:25:07,471 So that's right about when he first saw me. 301 00:25:16,915 --> 00:25:19,049 This was my group, I mean, my class, 302 00:25:19,084 --> 00:25:20,518 they were kind of bullying me, 303 00:25:20,552 --> 00:25:22,720 and I was really unhappy in this period. 304 00:25:22,754 --> 00:25:27,057 They always called me, like, "Sheep. Dork." 305 00:25:27,092 --> 00:25:30,194 But the last day of school, we had like a little party 306 00:25:30,228 --> 00:25:33,697 and there was a song popular at the time 307 00:25:33,732 --> 00:25:36,267 that was called, "Girl, you are as ugly as the night," 308 00:25:36,301 --> 00:25:37,935 and they started playing that song 309 00:25:37,969 --> 00:25:39,336 and then they all... 310 00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:41,472 They've thought about it, clearly. 311 00:25:41,506 --> 00:25:43,474 Cause they all, like, went to the back 312 00:25:43,508 --> 00:25:44,708 and kind of, like, moved, 313 00:25:44,743 --> 00:25:46,844 so I would be the only one in the middle of the room 314 00:25:46,878 --> 00:25:49,146 and then everybody would be in a circle around me 315 00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:51,315 and started pointing and singing the song. 316 00:25:51,349 --> 00:25:54,785 And it was so mean, it's like so... 317 00:25:54,819 --> 00:25:56,654 I don't know. I'll never forget that moment. 318 00:26:20,545 --> 00:26:21,378 Yeah. 319 00:26:24,783 --> 00:26:25,616 Yeah. 320 00:28:44,456 --> 00:28:46,023 So I'm going to go upstairs 321 00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:49,159 and see if the letters that he kind of wrote me 322 00:28:49,194 --> 00:28:50,794 like 20 years ago are upstairs. 323 00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:53,063 And I don't know if they're there, 324 00:28:53,098 --> 00:28:54,832 and I don't know what's going to be in them 325 00:28:54,866 --> 00:28:55,866 if they're there and... 326 00:28:57,435 --> 00:29:01,105 I'm actually nervous to see if there's stuff in there 327 00:29:01,139 --> 00:29:02,272 that I don't remember 328 00:29:02,307 --> 00:29:04,308 and I think there's pictures there too. 329 00:29:10,148 --> 00:29:12,349 So they're in that bottom drawer, I think. 330 00:29:20,492 --> 00:29:22,126 This one's empty. That's bad news. 331 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,194 I'm afraid that they threw them out. 332 00:29:28,566 --> 00:29:30,100 Oh, my God, it's all empty. 333 00:29:45,683 --> 00:29:47,451 They cleaned it out, it's all gone. 334 00:29:59,764 --> 00:30:00,597 [sighs] 335 00:30:27,959 --> 00:30:29,259 Can I take a moment? 336 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:41,405 [starts crying] 337 00:30:55,753 --> 00:30:57,421 I don't know if I want to read them now. 338 00:31:15,807 --> 00:31:17,708 I'm worried that it's going to confuse me. 339 00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:19,142 It's going to confuse me. 340 00:31:23,481 --> 00:31:26,149 I'm worried that it's going to say all these nice things 341 00:31:26,184 --> 00:31:27,017 and then... 342 00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:34,324 and I'm going to question it again. 343 00:31:41,966 --> 00:31:43,467 [exhales] 344 00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:53,210 This one's really short. But... 345 00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:59,783 [man voice] "Dear Gwen, 346 00:31:59,817 --> 00:32:02,352 I've known you for two and a half years now. 347 00:32:02,387 --> 00:32:03,854 You know that most of the time 348 00:32:03,888 --> 00:32:05,923 I've had very special feelings for you. 349 00:32:06,958 --> 00:32:09,259 That I would do anything for you. 350 00:32:09,294 --> 00:32:11,194 That you can come to me with anything, 351 00:32:11,229 --> 00:32:13,730 no matter how big or small the problem, 352 00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:15,732 I want to solve everything for you. 353 00:32:16,868 --> 00:32:19,403 Gwenny, look at your beautiful eyes, 354 00:32:19,437 --> 00:32:21,571 your sweet, beautiful, innocent face. 355 00:32:22,907 --> 00:32:25,175 Put your soft arms around me. 356 00:32:25,209 --> 00:32:26,877 Surrender to what you're feeling. 357 00:32:27,745 --> 00:32:29,346 It wasn't just that little ass 358 00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:31,548 that caused my little spark. 359 00:32:31,582 --> 00:32:35,385 Also that playful wrestling made my desire grow. 360 00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:38,455 "The thought of you makes my whole body tremble." 361 00:32:38,489 --> 00:32:40,757 It's so gross. It's so gross! 362 00:32:42,593 --> 00:32:44,861 [man voice] "I just want to wake up next to you" 363 00:32:44,896 --> 00:32:46,463 in a single bed on Sunday morning. 364 00:32:47,065 --> 00:32:48,532 I just want to take off 365 00:32:48,566 --> 00:32:50,701 "your blue lingerie with my teeth." 366 00:32:53,471 --> 00:32:55,672 [Gwen] I remember liking what was in them, 367 00:32:55,707 --> 00:32:59,209 now I'm disgusted about them. But I remember thinking, 368 00:32:59,243 --> 00:33:01,945 "It's so great all these things that he's talking about." 369 00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:05,515 Like, "You're so beautiful, you're so..." 370 00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:08,285 "When you do this with your mouth, you're so bla, bla, bla." 371 00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:09,920 "The way you do this, you look so cute. 372 00:33:09,954 --> 00:33:11,588 You look so innocent. You look so..." 373 00:33:11,622 --> 00:33:13,623 It's disgusting. 374 00:33:15,026 --> 00:33:17,027 Back then, I would read them, and I would think, 375 00:33:17,061 --> 00:33:19,563 "Oh, somebody likes me." You know? 376 00:33:24,135 --> 00:33:26,336 First of all, he would send me postcards like this. 377 00:33:27,605 --> 00:33:30,107 And he's an idiot. He clearly didn't know what he was doing. 378 00:33:30,141 --> 00:33:34,144 You wouldn't write all these stuff on paper 379 00:33:34,178 --> 00:33:35,245 with dates on them 380 00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:36,947 if you knew what the hell you were doing. 381 00:33:36,981 --> 00:33:39,327 I don't think he knew that he was doing something wrong. 382 00:33:39,351 --> 00:33:41,351 He doesn't. He still doesn't. 383 00:33:42,620 --> 00:33:44,454 And that makes me sad. 384 00:33:44,489 --> 00:33:48,058 It's like, it's just a sad soul that, like, 385 00:33:49,627 --> 00:33:51,294 fell in love with an 11-year-old 386 00:33:51,329 --> 00:33:53,764 and now I'm going ruin his life for it. 387 00:33:53,798 --> 00:33:55,832 That doesn't feel right, you know? 388 00:34:18,589 --> 00:34:20,690 [Dennis] It starts from the moment they get there. 389 00:34:22,093 --> 00:34:24,261 When they get to my house, I'm grooming. 390 00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:26,396 To build a trusted relationship. 391 00:34:26,431 --> 00:34:27,998 I'm showing her more affection, 392 00:34:28,032 --> 00:34:28,932 I'm holding her. 393 00:34:28,966 --> 00:34:31,234 You know, I want her to be my best friend, 394 00:34:31,269 --> 00:34:32,169 that's what I want. 395 00:34:32,203 --> 00:34:33,970 I always loved my uncle, 396 00:34:34,005 --> 00:34:37,507 'til 20 years later when I had my best memory. 397 00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:39,876 He was special to me. 398 00:34:39,911 --> 00:34:41,711 [Barbi] They would buy me gifts, 399 00:34:41,746 --> 00:34:43,580 they would take me to feed the ducks. 400 00:34:43,614 --> 00:34:47,017 My uncle would let me play on his CB radio, 401 00:34:47,051 --> 00:34:48,351 and he would let me go in there 402 00:34:48,386 --> 00:34:50,687 and I would be this big girl 403 00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:51,588 sitting in the seat 404 00:34:51,622 --> 00:34:53,056 with the microphone in front of me 405 00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:57,694 and he even gave me a CB name, he called me, "Baby face." 406 00:34:57,728 --> 00:35:03,767 Just imagine how it would be if the one who's grooming you 407 00:35:03,801 --> 00:35:05,735 is of your own family 408 00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:10,140 and very much liked by your father and mother 409 00:35:10,174 --> 00:35:12,609 or it is even your father and mother. 410 00:35:12,643 --> 00:35:14,611 How complicated is that? 411 00:35:14,645 --> 00:35:16,480 To me, my dad was my hero, 412 00:35:16,514 --> 00:35:18,148 so, like, I wanted to be like him. 413 00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:19,816 I always thought that he was smart 414 00:35:19,851 --> 00:35:23,220 and like, that he made something of himself. 415 00:35:23,254 --> 00:35:26,556 He kind of seemed like a father figure to me. 416 00:35:26,591 --> 00:35:29,226 [Nicole] He was around 65. 417 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:31,161 He would take me privately into the back 418 00:35:31,195 --> 00:35:32,729 and ask me how I was doing. 419 00:35:32,763 --> 00:35:34,331 You know, what my opinions were, 420 00:35:34,365 --> 00:35:35,799 how I was doing in school. 421 00:35:35,833 --> 00:35:37,767 He would make me special meals. 422 00:35:37,802 --> 00:35:38,902 He was affectionate. 423 00:35:38,936 --> 00:35:40,537 [Dennis] I would show the affection. 424 00:35:40,571 --> 00:35:42,216 First thing when she got out of the car, 425 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:43,340 I'd be there to greet her, 426 00:35:44,308 --> 00:35:47,110 hug her and hold her. I almost never left her. 427 00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:49,112 She was my girlfriend to me, you know? 428 00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:50,580 Rather than a little kid. 429 00:35:51,582 --> 00:35:53,483 When she came in my room, I'd be on my computer. 430 00:35:53,518 --> 00:35:56,119 "Come on, sit on my lap. You can play the computer." 431 00:35:56,154 --> 00:35:57,320 You know? 432 00:35:57,355 --> 00:35:59,456 "I don't let anybody else play it, 433 00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:00,857 but I'll let you play it." 434 00:36:02,059 --> 00:36:05,362 Well, I definitely was clearly his favorite. 435 00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:07,330 He bought me some fragrances. 436 00:36:07,365 --> 00:36:09,299 - He gave me a ring. - Lotions. 437 00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:10,878 - Flowers. - Money. 438 00:36:10,902 --> 00:36:12,369 - Jewelry. - Perfumes. 439 00:36:12,403 --> 00:36:13,503 Ice cream. 440 00:36:13,538 --> 00:36:14,437 Plane tickets. 441 00:36:14,472 --> 00:36:16,339 [Dennis] I was a con artist, 442 00:36:16,374 --> 00:36:19,342 and I was constantly putting thoughts on their head. 443 00:36:19,377 --> 00:36:21,645 You know, I guess you can call it brainwashing. 444 00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:23,446 I guess it is brainwashing. 445 00:36:23,481 --> 00:36:25,215 That's what it was all about, you know? 446 00:36:25,249 --> 00:36:28,218 I was getting what I want. You know, they loved me. 447 00:36:28,252 --> 00:36:30,153 I knew that I had to make them think 448 00:36:30,188 --> 00:36:32,322 I was the greatest grandpa in the world. 449 00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:36,126 Did you, like, have code words 450 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,994 with your abuser 451 00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:41,464 that meant something special to you and him? 452 00:36:41,499 --> 00:36:43,833 [Gwen] There was this thing which I had forgotten about, 453 00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:45,502 but it came back through the letters 454 00:36:45,536 --> 00:36:50,440 where nine is my lucky number and he... 455 00:36:50,474 --> 00:36:52,475 kind of made it his lucky number too 456 00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:55,712 and there is so many references to that, 457 00:36:55,746 --> 00:36:57,280 so that became like a thing. 458 00:36:57,315 --> 00:36:59,649 And then when I was googling him, 459 00:36:59,684 --> 00:37:02,252 what I found was that he started a company... 460 00:37:02,286 --> 00:37:03,587 Don't tell me it had nine in it. 461 00:37:03,621 --> 00:37:05,021 - [Gwen] With nine in it. - Oh. 462 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,023 [Gwen] Something that was meaningful... 463 00:37:07,058 --> 00:37:09,392 - That only you and him would recognize. - [Gwen] Right. 464 00:37:10,261 --> 00:37:12,062 Talk about being groomed, like... 465 00:37:13,731 --> 00:37:15,665 It's just unbelievable the depth of it 466 00:37:15,733 --> 00:37:20,370 - and how intricate it all became. - [Gwen] Yes. 467 00:37:21,872 --> 00:37:25,075 You think it's about you, it probably isn't. 468 00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:27,277 It's kind of hard to admit, 469 00:37:27,311 --> 00:37:29,946 especially if you're still 470 00:37:29,981 --> 00:37:31,715 in a very vulnerable place, to say, 471 00:37:31,749 --> 00:37:33,583 "Oh, that guy who was saying I'm so special, 472 00:37:33,618 --> 00:37:36,620 "yeah, he's a criminal. I'm actually not that special." That sucks. 473 00:37:38,556 --> 00:37:42,225 The letters, the gifts, the many bike rides home. 474 00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:44,594 He had become a huge part of my life. 475 00:37:45,896 --> 00:37:49,366 But the crazy thing is, after I left the swim team, 476 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,902 I completely forgot that any of it ever happened. 477 00:37:52,937 --> 00:37:55,438 It's fascinating how the minds can just block out 478 00:37:55,473 --> 00:37:57,107 what's too painful to remember, 479 00:37:57,908 --> 00:37:59,409 but then five years later, 480 00:37:59,443 --> 00:38:01,378 when I had my first boyfriend, 481 00:38:01,445 --> 00:38:03,913 I started to have nightmares. 482 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:06,850 Every night I was in the shower, I didn't recognize. 483 00:38:07,818 --> 00:38:10,153 It was months later before I realized 484 00:38:10,187 --> 00:38:12,355 that those dreams were actually a memory. 485 00:38:13,491 --> 00:38:15,759 And when it finally all became clear, 486 00:38:15,793 --> 00:38:17,627 I wrote him a letter. 487 00:38:17,662 --> 00:38:19,629 I said, "I'm not going to report you, 488 00:38:19,664 --> 00:38:21,197 but I want you to seek help." 489 00:38:25,036 --> 00:38:26,803 And, at some point, I was walking the dog. 490 00:38:26,837 --> 00:38:28,405 We were walking here 491 00:38:28,439 --> 00:38:30,940 and suddenly he had this red car 492 00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:34,277 and he just parked it. Like this. 493 00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:36,780 In front of me and got out of the car, and I... 494 00:38:36,814 --> 00:38:38,448 That's only the second time 495 00:38:38,482 --> 00:38:40,183 that I was ever really scared of him 496 00:38:40,217 --> 00:38:43,119 and he just gets out and says, 497 00:38:43,154 --> 00:38:46,456 "I got your letter", and he said, 498 00:38:46,524 --> 00:38:48,892 "You know that's a lie. You know this was real love." 499 00:38:49,627 --> 00:38:50,660 And he turned around, 500 00:38:50,695 --> 00:38:52,262 went back into his car and drove off. 501 00:38:52,296 --> 00:38:55,131 And that's the last time I've ever seen him, 502 00:38:55,166 --> 00:38:57,434 but I remember in that moment when he got out of the car 503 00:38:57,468 --> 00:38:58,301 I thought I was dead. 504 00:39:00,771 --> 00:39:04,641 [Harriet] So you can see how feeling sorry for the person, 505 00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:07,677 and also doubting, "maybe it was pure love." 506 00:39:07,712 --> 00:39:09,379 Of course you can confuse them. 507 00:39:12,883 --> 00:39:14,384 [Gwen] So I'm starting to wonder, 508 00:39:14,418 --> 00:39:17,687 "Do I want to report my offender or do I not?" 509 00:39:17,722 --> 00:39:20,724 And part of why it's so difficult 510 00:39:20,758 --> 00:39:24,060 is, "Oh, maybe it wasn't a big deal," 511 00:39:24,095 --> 00:39:27,163 and, you know, "I was... I never said no. 512 00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:28,398 I feel complicit." 513 00:39:30,234 --> 00:39:32,369 "Do I really want to ruin his life?" 514 00:39:32,403 --> 00:39:34,003 [Dennis] Right. Well, 515 00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:36,139 he was very good at grooming 516 00:39:36,173 --> 00:39:38,475 because he groomed you to think that. 517 00:39:38,509 --> 00:39:42,078 It puts a lot of confusion, I think, in my mind 518 00:39:42,113 --> 00:39:43,079 because then I think, 519 00:39:43,114 --> 00:39:44,514 "He didn't realize it was wrong. 520 00:39:44,548 --> 00:39:45,515 He made a mistake, 521 00:39:45,549 --> 00:39:47,984 maybe I shouldn't throw him under the bus." 522 00:39:48,018 --> 00:39:50,720 But, you know, you saying things like, 523 00:39:50,755 --> 00:39:52,066 "It's not going to stop." 524 00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:53,723 - Like, if you're... - [Dennis] Right. 525 00:39:53,758 --> 00:39:55,925 You know, his sense of sexuality 526 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,560 is fully developed at that age, 527 00:39:57,595 --> 00:39:59,896 he's not going to suddenly not be attracted to kids, 528 00:39:59,930 --> 00:40:01,064 that's not going to end. 529 00:40:01,098 --> 00:40:03,733 [Dennis] Oh, no. I mean, it's not natural. 530 00:40:03,768 --> 00:40:05,135 24-year-old 531 00:40:05,169 --> 00:40:07,404 wants to get together with a 12-year-old? 532 00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:09,205 Not unless he gets caught, it won't end. 533 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:10,740 Cause I know me. 534 00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:14,411 You know, I might have stopped for a while, 535 00:40:14,445 --> 00:40:15,845 but sooner or later 536 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,213 I would've found the right kid. 537 00:40:18,182 --> 00:40:22,552 My opinion, end it. You'll feel better. 538 00:40:22,586 --> 00:40:29,592 [music] 539 00:41:32,156 --> 00:41:39,162 [music] 540 00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:55,912 [typing] 541 00:41:55,946 --> 00:42:03,019 [music] 542 00:45:08,205 --> 00:45:09,072 [Gwen] The first time 543 00:45:09,106 --> 00:45:10,673 I remember something happening. 544 00:45:13,677 --> 00:45:16,212 We were at a camp with the swim team 545 00:45:17,614 --> 00:45:19,449 and at some point we were in a jacuzzi. 546 00:45:20,718 --> 00:45:22,885 Three or four kids were sitting on one side 547 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,755 and he and I were sitting on the other side. 548 00:45:25,789 --> 00:45:27,423 And we were just having a conversation, 549 00:45:27,458 --> 00:45:28,858 we were having fun. 550 00:45:28,892 --> 00:45:31,394 We were just talking about what 12-year-olds talk about. 551 00:45:32,629 --> 00:45:36,099 When he first touched me I thought he made a mistake. 552 00:45:36,133 --> 00:45:37,834 I thought he just touched me somewhere 553 00:45:37,868 --> 00:45:39,135 where he wasn't supposed to 554 00:45:39,169 --> 00:45:41,904 but that was because his hand was there by accident. 555 00:45:42,773 --> 00:45:43,773 And then he kept going. 556 00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:47,710 And I remember just being really confused. 557 00:45:48,779 --> 00:45:49,679 But I was trapped, 558 00:45:50,848 --> 00:45:53,015 and I remember sitting there with a blank face 559 00:45:53,050 --> 00:45:55,418 and making sure that nobody would see 560 00:45:55,452 --> 00:45:57,386 because I didn't want to get him in trouble. 561 00:45:59,022 --> 00:46:01,591 And that was the first time I vividly remember 562 00:46:01,625 --> 00:46:03,259 not wanting to get him in trouble. 563 00:46:12,903 --> 00:46:16,572 They had to specifically know what physically happened, 564 00:46:16,607 --> 00:46:18,141 and they were really validating. 565 00:46:18,175 --> 00:46:20,243 It doesn't matter what you said 566 00:46:20,277 --> 00:46:23,146 or what you thought or how you felt, 567 00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:25,114 how he felt, what he... Doesn't matter. 568 00:46:25,149 --> 00:46:26,949 He is wrong. Period. 569 00:46:26,984 --> 00:46:28,718 And then there's like a computer system 570 00:46:28,752 --> 00:46:30,553 where they put all the dates and his age 571 00:46:30,587 --> 00:46:32,755 and his date of birth or whatever, 572 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:37,460 what they know and then it spits out the term 573 00:46:37,494 --> 00:46:39,095 and, like, the cite of limitation 574 00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:42,265 and on most things 575 00:46:42,299 --> 00:46:43,800 is like 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 576 00:46:43,834 --> 00:46:44,801 and this was like none. 577 00:46:44,835 --> 00:46:46,536 There's none. This is wrong. 578 00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:49,205 He should've, in, like, a Dutch expression, he said... 579 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,807 [in Dutch] 580 00:46:50,841 --> 00:46:53,609 When he should've been the grown up here 581 00:46:53,644 --> 00:46:55,812 and, like, understood what he was doing 582 00:46:55,846 --> 00:46:58,080 and no, not okay. 583 00:46:58,115 --> 00:46:58,981 That was nice. 584 00:46:59,016 --> 00:47:06,088 [music] 585 00:47:46,063 --> 00:47:47,830 [Asia] Dear heavenly Father, thank you Lord 586 00:47:47,865 --> 00:47:50,333 and praise you for watching over all of us 587 00:47:50,367 --> 00:47:53,135 last night and this morning at keeping us safe. 588 00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:55,137 - [Voice on phone] Amen. - [Asia] Amen. 589 00:47:55,172 --> 00:47:59,141 ♪ You're the heart of my contentment ♪ 590 00:47:59,176 --> 00:48:03,112 ♪ Hope for all I do ♪ 591 00:48:03,146 --> 00:48:09,285 ♪ Jesus, you're the center of my joy ♪ 592 00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:14,790 [Gwen] I wanted to ask you if you would be comfortable 593 00:48:14,825 --> 00:48:17,193 describing what happened, where were you at 594 00:48:17,227 --> 00:48:18,294 and what was going on. 595 00:48:18,629 --> 00:48:19,462 Okay. 596 00:48:24,801 --> 00:48:26,736 [Denis] After I get their trust 597 00:48:26,770 --> 00:48:29,272 and I feel that I could do almost anything with them, 598 00:48:31,608 --> 00:48:32,708 I try to molest them. 599 00:48:35,412 --> 00:48:37,546 [Asia] The first time was at the church. 600 00:48:38,482 --> 00:48:40,249 I go in the back office to get the CDs, 601 00:48:40,284 --> 00:48:41,183 he followed me. 602 00:48:41,218 --> 00:48:42,451 And I was wearing these pants 603 00:48:42,486 --> 00:48:43,653 that had the zipper in the back 604 00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:48,024 and I'm bent overlooking for, 605 00:48:48,058 --> 00:48:49,926 um, some CDs, 606 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,930 he then holds me down and unzips the pants. 607 00:48:55,332 --> 00:48:56,265 And, um... 608 00:48:58,268 --> 00:48:59,168 Well yeah. 609 00:48:59,202 --> 00:49:00,436 When he was done, 610 00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:02,738 he told me to go clean myself up 611 00:49:02,773 --> 00:49:04,273 because I was probably bleeding. 612 00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:07,977 One of the FOC group practices 613 00:49:08,011 --> 00:49:10,813 he told me it was going to be at his house. 614 00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:12,815 So I started playing and singing 615 00:49:12,849 --> 00:49:14,083 and he was playing his organ 616 00:49:14,117 --> 00:49:16,552 and pulling out different sheet music to practice. 617 00:49:17,988 --> 00:49:20,690 And then at one point he pulled out 618 00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:22,024 a pornographic magazine. 619 00:49:22,893 --> 00:49:24,660 He told me that that was my lucky day 620 00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:26,595 and then at one point 621 00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:30,566 I remember him grabbing me by the back of my neck 622 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,504 and pushing myself down on top of him and, uh... 623 00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:42,411 I can remember feeling like I was disconnecting 624 00:49:42,446 --> 00:49:44,146 from my body. 625 00:49:45,382 --> 00:49:48,684 Feeling like I was dying in a way. 626 00:49:51,054 --> 00:49:54,957 20 years after the abuse I was walking with my son 627 00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:57,093 through their part of the house 628 00:49:57,127 --> 00:50:00,596 and I remember smelling his cologne 629 00:50:00,630 --> 00:50:01,897 and just wanting to throw up. 630 00:50:02,966 --> 00:50:08,504 I had a flash of my sister and me, 631 00:50:08,538 --> 00:50:11,807 5-years-old, in his bed 632 00:50:11,842 --> 00:50:15,678 and I see my little, beautiful sister bouncing... 633 00:50:15,712 --> 00:50:19,482 He's bouncing her but on this area 634 00:50:19,516 --> 00:50:23,085 and you just hear her crying and crying. 635 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:30,126 [music] 636 00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:42,138 [videocall ringing] 637 00:53:21,598 --> 00:53:24,833 I'd call it soul murder when you, um... 638 00:53:26,703 --> 00:53:30,072 when you attack a child and when you rape a child. 639 00:53:31,241 --> 00:53:32,975 You leave the body intact, 640 00:53:33,009 --> 00:53:36,845 but the soul could quite possibly be killed, 641 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:38,814 destroyed, you know, 642 00:53:38,848 --> 00:53:40,783 it totally changed the chemistry 643 00:53:40,817 --> 00:53:43,686 in the child's brain, they've proven. 644 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,121 Um, and you're not the same person anymore 645 00:53:46,156 --> 00:53:47,122 once that happens. 646 00:53:47,157 --> 00:53:47,990 No. 647 00:53:58,802 --> 00:54:02,071 [Gwen] Yeah, I definitely started to get sick here already. 648 00:54:02,105 --> 00:54:05,641 And then I think I lost like 10-15 kilos after this. 649 00:54:07,477 --> 00:54:10,212 "This afternoon on the boat I was looking at my legs" 650 00:54:10,247 --> 00:54:12,581 and I just saw two enormous pieces of meat. 651 00:54:13,116 --> 00:54:15,284 So enormous", it says. 652 00:54:15,318 --> 00:54:17,720 And "So fat and so ugly." 653 00:54:17,754 --> 00:54:20,756 So now I feel the need to stop eating 654 00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:22,891 to get skinny, really skinny. 655 00:54:22,926 --> 00:54:24,426 No more needing to feel 656 00:54:24,494 --> 00:54:26,729 how I can be judged for everything I do, 657 00:54:26,763 --> 00:54:29,565 for every move I make, for every bite that I eat. 658 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:31,900 I want to be gone. 659 00:54:31,935 --> 00:54:33,068 "Gone. Gone." 660 00:54:34,537 --> 00:54:37,640 It's something I wrote when I was anorexic. 661 00:54:38,975 --> 00:54:43,746 It was like a 5 year, 6 year or whatever process and... 662 00:54:45,548 --> 00:54:47,616 But my therapist, that's the one who... 663 00:54:48,885 --> 00:54:50,219 The guy told me, the psychologist, 664 00:54:50,253 --> 00:54:51,920 psychiatrist, whatever, and nothing worked 665 00:54:51,955 --> 00:54:54,723 and then she kind of... 666 00:54:56,092 --> 00:54:57,393 I feel like she just understood me 667 00:54:57,427 --> 00:55:00,663 and just listened to me and tried to forget 668 00:55:00,697 --> 00:55:02,931 about the eating all together 669 00:55:02,966 --> 00:55:04,300 and just let go of that, 670 00:55:04,334 --> 00:55:05,501 and of course we had to touch it 671 00:55:05,535 --> 00:55:06,802 every now and then, but, 672 00:55:07,337 --> 00:55:08,804 um, she was just like, 673 00:55:08,838 --> 00:55:10,906 "It's not about that," and that gave me... 674 00:55:10,940 --> 00:55:11,940 That made me trust her, 675 00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:12,975 cause I felt like everybody 676 00:55:13,009 --> 00:55:15,311 was just trying to stuff food down my throat, 677 00:55:15,345 --> 00:55:18,180 but she was trying to actually understand what was going on. 678 00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:22,885 "I want to be so skinny that there's nothing left of me." 679 00:55:26,690 --> 00:55:30,793 I was 75 pound, could barely go to school, 680 00:55:30,827 --> 00:55:32,328 and became too weak to swim. 681 00:55:41,538 --> 00:55:44,239 [Keith] I was suffering from anorexia. 682 00:55:44,274 --> 00:55:47,409 My life was, you know, spinning out of control 683 00:55:47,444 --> 00:55:50,446 and, um, after the abuse ended, 684 00:55:50,513 --> 00:55:53,115 everything just kind of rose to the surface 685 00:55:53,149 --> 00:55:55,351 so it resulted in an eating disorder 686 00:55:55,385 --> 00:55:57,453 and severe depression, 687 00:55:57,487 --> 00:56:01,523 anxiety, you know, night terrors, nightmares. 688 00:56:01,558 --> 00:56:06,195 There was all this going on in my life at that time. 689 00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:10,065 It made me physically sick. 690 00:56:10,133 --> 00:56:13,135 I've been in and out of hospitals since then. 691 00:56:13,169 --> 00:56:16,705 Things I can't really explain except for stress. 692 00:56:17,741 --> 00:56:19,742 I mean, I was just in the hospital 693 00:56:19,776 --> 00:56:21,410 for two weeks. 694 00:56:21,444 --> 00:56:23,045 I mean, stress into stroke. 695 00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:26,582 And I'm kind of young for all that... 696 00:56:31,354 --> 00:56:32,855 [Denis] After the molesting, 697 00:56:32,889 --> 00:56:35,257 the big thing is use the trust 698 00:56:35,291 --> 00:56:36,592 to keep her quiet. 699 00:56:40,597 --> 00:56:44,400 This is secret, don't tell anybody. 700 00:56:44,434 --> 00:56:46,034 You don't want to get grandpa in trouble. 701 00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:47,669 Then I won't see you anymore. 702 00:56:47,704 --> 00:56:49,405 You know, we can't go and do things. 703 00:56:49,439 --> 00:56:51,240 You know, and I build that up a little bit more. 704 00:56:51,274 --> 00:56:52,641 You know? 705 00:56:52,675 --> 00:56:55,577 Uh, but getting somebody to tell you something 706 00:56:55,612 --> 00:56:57,513 that she hasn't told anybody else 707 00:56:57,547 --> 00:56:59,348 or he hasn't told anybody else 708 00:56:59,382 --> 00:57:00,916 and then holding that, 709 00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:04,086 you know, so that you know that if you ever tell on me, 710 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,587 I'm going to tell on you. 711 00:57:05,622 --> 00:57:07,423 I go back and forth on everything, 712 00:57:07,457 --> 00:57:09,558 he explicitly said, 713 00:57:09,592 --> 00:57:11,794 "don't tell anyone, you need to keep it a secret." 714 00:57:11,828 --> 00:57:13,962 But it was... It was just really clear 715 00:57:13,997 --> 00:57:15,497 that it was supposed to be a secret. 716 00:57:15,532 --> 00:57:17,599 I don't know how I knew or why I knew, 717 00:57:17,634 --> 00:57:19,435 but I knew to not say anything. 718 00:57:19,469 --> 00:57:21,236 [Barbi] Like, why didn't I say anything? 719 00:57:21,271 --> 00:57:23,439 They must've said something to me 720 00:57:23,473 --> 00:57:26,008 to convince me not to say something. 721 00:57:26,976 --> 00:57:28,410 They start with little secrets, 722 00:57:28,445 --> 00:57:30,746 they're testing to see if you'll keep the secret. 723 00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:32,648 - Oh, interesting. - So it might be 724 00:57:32,682 --> 00:57:34,249 that he takes you some place 725 00:57:34,284 --> 00:57:35,617 that you weren't supposed to go 726 00:57:35,652 --> 00:57:37,553 or gives you a little tiny gift 727 00:57:37,587 --> 00:57:40,155 that he can explain away if it ever comes to light. 728 00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:42,558 And so there's this building up to secrecy. 729 00:57:42,592 --> 00:57:45,394 You start with ones, you test. "Okay, will he hold that one." 730 00:57:45,428 --> 00:57:48,831 Then "will he hold that one?" That's grooming. Straight up. 731 00:57:48,865 --> 00:57:53,702 He started putting extra money in my pay checks every week. 732 00:57:53,736 --> 00:57:56,238 He would say, "Oh, just don't tell anyone about this. 733 00:57:56,272 --> 00:57:57,940 This is just between me and you." 734 00:57:57,974 --> 00:58:00,309 I just remember him always saying 735 00:58:00,343 --> 00:58:02,044 "Don't trust other people. 736 00:58:02,078 --> 00:58:03,312 Don't talk to other people 737 00:58:03,346 --> 00:58:05,447 about what happens in the house." 738 00:58:05,482 --> 00:58:09,518 My dad asked why I didn't tell him... 739 00:58:23,366 --> 00:58:25,968 I had to keep telling myself, "Okay, I'm a good girl. 740 00:58:26,002 --> 00:58:26,869 I'm a good girl. 741 00:58:26,903 --> 00:58:29,171 I'm still a good girl, it's okay. 742 00:58:29,205 --> 00:58:31,173 I'm okay. I'll be okay." 743 00:58:33,009 --> 00:58:34,676 But for some reason I just... 744 00:58:36,579 --> 00:58:40,382 I felt like I shamed the family somehow. 745 00:58:41,484 --> 00:58:42,751 So I didn't want to talk about it. 746 01:00:07,537 --> 01:00:14,543 [typing] 747 01:00:19,749 --> 01:00:24,886 Whoever is a sex offender is going to deny. 748 01:00:25,788 --> 01:00:27,389 They're great at lying, 749 01:00:27,423 --> 01:00:28,790 they're the best at lying 750 01:00:28,825 --> 01:00:30,359 and it's funny because when I was younger 751 01:00:30,393 --> 01:00:31,893 that's when I started lying. 752 01:00:31,928 --> 01:00:34,363 "Did you do that?" "No, I didn't do it." 753 01:00:34,397 --> 01:00:37,666 As I went through life it got easier, you know? 754 01:00:37,700 --> 01:00:41,637 And it just got to be a part of my being, I guess. 755 01:00:44,107 --> 01:00:46,208 The part of me that is groomed 756 01:00:46,242 --> 01:00:48,777 would expect him to be arrested, 757 01:00:48,811 --> 01:00:53,782 go in and say, "I'm so sorry that I hurt her." 758 01:00:54,450 --> 01:00:56,885 I never intended to do so. 759 01:00:56,919 --> 01:01:00,389 I really loved her, cared for her, 760 01:01:00,423 --> 01:01:02,658 and I'm so sorry to hear 761 01:01:02,692 --> 01:01:05,160 "that this is the impact that it's had on her." 762 01:01:05,194 --> 01:01:07,996 That would be consistent with the person that I saw 763 01:01:08,031 --> 01:01:12,234 and the person that portrayer care for me and love for me. 764 01:01:12,268 --> 01:01:14,503 He is taking a stance against me, 765 01:01:15,471 --> 01:01:17,839 makes me see a different side of him 766 01:01:17,874 --> 01:01:20,108 and it's almost like he's ungrooming me 767 01:01:20,143 --> 01:01:22,778 in a way, it's making me see 768 01:01:22,812 --> 01:01:24,613 he maybe more for what he is 769 01:01:24,647 --> 01:01:26,748 versus how he portrayed himself 770 01:01:26,783 --> 01:01:28,150 towards me for all those years. 771 01:01:29,552 --> 01:01:32,254 That's just exactly why it's good 772 01:01:32,288 --> 01:01:33,488 to have the knowledge 773 01:01:33,523 --> 01:01:37,025 of maybe you've seen two sides of the person. 774 01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:41,630 That helps. That helps to clear confusion. 775 01:01:42,665 --> 01:01:43,799 He doesn't even want to admit 776 01:01:43,833 --> 01:01:45,701 to have sent me the letter, are you kidding me? 777 01:01:46,302 --> 01:01:53,308 [music] 778 01:02:00,783 --> 01:02:06,955 I got pregnant as a result of the abuse of my father. 779 01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:08,623 Um... 780 01:02:11,627 --> 01:02:12,961 I was 15. 781 01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:19,067 He tried a natural remedy for an abortion. 782 01:02:19,102 --> 01:02:23,205 Aspirin mixed with some other things 783 01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:27,876 and that then led to him taking me 784 01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:29,344 to an abortion clinic 785 01:02:30,947 --> 01:02:36,184 when I was pretty far along in the pregnancy 786 01:02:36,219 --> 01:02:40,722 and I was awake while the procedure happened. 787 01:02:42,058 --> 01:02:43,291 He even said, 788 01:02:44,293 --> 01:02:46,595 "You should be thankful 789 01:02:46,629 --> 01:02:49,064 that your dad brought you here, 790 01:02:49,098 --> 01:02:51,867 there's not a lot of parents who would do that." 791 01:02:53,202 --> 01:02:54,035 Um... 792 01:02:57,106 --> 01:02:58,774 That moment I think shaped 793 01:03:00,810 --> 01:03:02,410 the beginning of me, like, 794 01:03:02,445 --> 01:03:06,248 really separating in a way from him. 795 01:03:12,455 --> 01:03:14,790 He got a sentence of 20 years. 796 01:03:15,925 --> 01:03:18,426 [Gwen] How did it feel when he was convicted? 797 01:03:43,953 --> 01:03:45,086 [Denis] I just got off of work, 798 01:03:45,121 --> 01:03:46,655 it was 6 o'clock in the morning 799 01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:49,057 and as I was driving home, 800 01:03:49,091 --> 01:03:51,827 whoever was on back on me, kept following me. 801 01:03:51,861 --> 01:03:53,328 And I started to get nervous. 802 01:03:53,362 --> 01:03:55,430 When I came around, I pulled on my driveway, 803 01:03:56,465 --> 01:03:58,800 in front of me there's the state police. 804 01:03:58,835 --> 01:04:00,602 Federal officers. 805 01:04:00,636 --> 01:04:01,703 I'm like, "How am I going to lie? 806 01:04:01,737 --> 01:04:02,838 What am I going to say?" 807 01:04:02,872 --> 01:04:05,440 I didn't even think about what I did yet, I mean, 808 01:04:05,474 --> 01:04:07,375 I did it, but now I want to get out of it. 809 01:04:07,410 --> 01:04:09,211 I sat down with my head between my legs 810 01:04:09,245 --> 01:04:12,414 and I though, "My God what did I do?" 811 01:04:13,416 --> 01:04:14,416 You know, "What's..." 812 01:04:16,185 --> 01:04:17,385 I'm thinking of prison, 813 01:04:17,420 --> 01:04:19,988 the bars and these crazy guys that are there. 814 01:04:20,022 --> 01:04:21,590 I mean, all these things went through my head 815 01:04:22,525 --> 01:04:24,025 and I get a call, 816 01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,861 and I'm thinking "Who is this now?" 817 01:04:25,895 --> 01:04:26,795 I answered it 818 01:04:26,829 --> 01:04:28,864 and it was my step-granddaughter. 819 01:04:28,898 --> 01:04:29,865 She's the one I molested. 820 01:04:29,899 --> 01:04:31,533 She says, "Grandpa," you know, 821 01:04:31,567 --> 01:04:32,400 "I'm sorry 822 01:04:33,569 --> 01:04:36,004 that I had to get you in trouble." 823 01:04:36,038 --> 01:04:37,205 You know? I mean, see? 824 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:38,974 The lies I told her, 825 01:04:39,008 --> 01:04:41,343 she was actually feeling so much guilt 826 01:04:41,811 --> 01:04:43,278 because of that. 827 01:04:43,312 --> 01:04:45,513 You know, she was apologizing for, 828 01:04:45,548 --> 01:04:46,915 you know, doing the right thing. 829 01:07:39,388 --> 01:07:40,655 I want to share something with you 830 01:07:40,689 --> 01:07:42,290 that happened this morning. 831 01:07:43,626 --> 01:07:44,459 Um... 832 01:07:45,861 --> 01:07:47,228 You're, like, the second person 833 01:07:47,296 --> 01:07:48,496 that I'm telling, 834 01:07:48,531 --> 01:07:51,466 and I got an e-mail this morning 835 01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:55,403 completely out of nowhere from a girl in the same team 836 01:07:55,738 --> 01:07:56,704 who said, 837 01:07:56,739 --> 01:07:58,807 "Are you talking about this person? 838 01:07:58,841 --> 01:08:00,075 Cause this happened to me." 839 01:08:01,010 --> 01:08:03,244 And it just, I don't know. 840 01:08:03,279 --> 01:08:04,612 It just broke my heart, you know? 841 01:08:06,949 --> 01:08:09,584 But I think I've never been prouder 842 01:08:09,618 --> 01:08:12,420 that I reported or proud of anything I've done, 843 01:08:12,455 --> 01:08:14,889 maybe, after when I got that e-mail 844 01:08:14,924 --> 01:08:16,001 I just thought I did the right thing, 845 01:08:16,025 --> 01:08:17,025 you know? 846 01:08:18,127 --> 01:08:22,564 I would be interested in hearing your process 847 01:08:22,598 --> 01:08:25,800 of how you did that because I've never reported anything. 848 01:08:25,835 --> 01:08:27,902 I think for everybody the process is different 849 01:08:27,937 --> 01:08:29,304 and what is right is different. 850 01:08:29,338 --> 01:08:30,572 I don't think there is an answer 851 01:08:30,606 --> 01:08:32,240 for everybody that's the same. 852 01:08:32,274 --> 01:08:34,042 But in my case, it was hard. 853 01:08:34,076 --> 01:08:36,778 It was so hard to talk about it 854 01:08:36,812 --> 01:08:38,379 and to go through the question. 855 01:08:38,414 --> 01:08:39,581 They told me that if this happened 856 01:08:39,615 --> 01:08:41,916 it is a crime and a really serious one. 857 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:46,454 [sobbing] 858 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,603 Now I feel more motivated also to go 859 01:09:01,637 --> 01:09:05,173 and appeal and tell the prosecutor 860 01:09:05,207 --> 01:09:06,307 that they're wrong. It's like, 861 01:09:06,342 --> 01:09:08,009 "You've got to get this guy off the street." 862 01:09:09,411 --> 01:09:10,512 I didn't really feel that before. 863 01:09:10,546 --> 01:09:12,881 Before I was, "Oh, I didn't validate me a little bit. 864 01:09:12,915 --> 01:09:14,182 Maybe I didn't want to take it seriously, 865 01:09:14,216 --> 01:09:15,450 then you start feeling like, doing it." 866 01:09:15,484 --> 01:09:17,719 Now, I'm like "Go get this guy. 867 01:09:17,753 --> 01:09:18,853 Go get him now." 868 01:09:26,328 --> 01:09:28,296 I was told that to have any chance 869 01:09:28,330 --> 01:09:31,166 of reopening my case I needed to do two things, 870 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,601 try to get DNA on the letters. 871 01:09:33,636 --> 01:09:34,969 Even though the prosecutors 872 01:09:35,004 --> 01:09:36,304 said they couldn't find any DNA, 873 01:09:36,338 --> 01:09:37,539 try to find it, 874 01:09:37,573 --> 01:09:40,175 and then try to get a handwriting sample from him 875 01:09:40,209 --> 01:09:42,677 to match to the writing of the letters. 876 01:09:42,711 --> 01:09:45,513 As a first step I took the letters to a lab. 877 01:09:45,548 --> 01:09:47,015 - Welcome. - Nice to meet you, thank you. 878 01:09:47,049 --> 01:09:48,149 - Follow me. - Thank you. 879 01:09:49,919 --> 01:09:51,886 [Gwen] We are looking for a second opinion. 880 01:09:51,921 --> 01:09:54,389 We have evidence in the form of letters, 881 01:09:54,423 --> 01:09:57,358 but they're not able to match the suspect to the letters. 882 01:09:57,393 --> 01:09:58,893 And so what we want to try and see 883 01:09:58,928 --> 01:10:00,028 is there really no DNA, 884 01:10:00,062 --> 01:10:02,330 cause we still have the stamp on the card. 885 01:10:02,364 --> 01:10:04,299 Does that mean that the stamp was no tested? 886 01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:05,333 Would you take it out? 887 01:10:05,367 --> 01:10:08,036 Usually if we would test the stamp on DNA 888 01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:09,671 then we would, indeed take it out. 889 01:10:09,705 --> 01:10:11,172 Especially if it's an old letter, 890 01:10:11,207 --> 01:10:13,541 maybe the person who left the DNA licked it. 891 01:10:13,576 --> 01:10:15,543 - Mm-hmmm. - And it's well isolated 892 01:10:15,578 --> 01:10:18,746 on the card so it would be one of the best places to start. 893 01:10:19,582 --> 01:10:21,549 So is my DNA going to be all over? 894 01:10:21,584 --> 01:10:23,518 Your DNA is definitely going to be there 895 01:10:23,552 --> 01:10:24,786 - if you touched it. - Right. 896 01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:25,987 So I think it would be best 897 01:10:26,021 --> 01:10:27,722 if we take a reference sample of you too. 898 01:10:32,995 --> 01:10:35,730 It takes about four weeks until we send the answer. 899 01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:44,906 [typing] 900 01:10:56,252 --> 01:10:57,252 [doorbell rings] 901 01:10:59,321 --> 01:11:00,221 Hey. 902 01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:19,907 [Gwen] Raimondo told me it would probably 903 01:11:19,942 --> 01:11:21,242 take a while before he would get 904 01:11:21,277 --> 01:11:23,578 the right opportunity to get a handwriting sample. 905 01:11:24,713 --> 01:11:25,913 But in the meantime, 906 01:11:25,948 --> 01:11:27,181 he found out that my offender 907 01:11:27,216 --> 01:11:29,384 lives just five minutes away from my parents house. 908 01:11:31,086 --> 01:11:33,755 He had blacked out all his windows. 909 01:11:33,789 --> 01:11:36,224 He never married and he doesn't have a family. 910 01:11:38,761 --> 01:11:40,094 He found out that he remained 911 01:11:40,129 --> 01:11:42,797 at the swim club for years after I left, 912 01:11:42,831 --> 01:11:45,066 and as recently as three years ago 913 01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:46,634 he was working at summer camps. 914 01:11:50,606 --> 01:11:51,939 I'm a little nervous. 915 01:11:51,974 --> 01:11:54,342 Well should I get straight to the point then? 916 01:11:54,376 --> 01:11:57,979 Yes. Let's do it the Dutch way and get straight to the point. 917 01:11:58,781 --> 01:12:00,782 Okay. So as we investigated 918 01:12:00,816 --> 01:12:03,151 five of your letters that you gave 919 01:12:04,386 --> 01:12:09,157 and we found two profiles, one female profile, 920 01:12:10,025 --> 01:12:12,327 which was yours 921 01:12:12,361 --> 01:12:14,362 and so there was one other profile too. 922 01:12:15,130 --> 01:12:16,998 And is it a male profile? 923 01:12:17,032 --> 01:12:19,267 Unfortunately, I'm not able to say 924 01:12:19,301 --> 01:12:20,635 or disclose that 925 01:12:20,669 --> 01:12:23,805 because of the regulation with respect of privacy. 926 01:12:23,839 --> 01:12:25,506 - Okay. - Same profile 927 01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:27,175 on three different items. 928 01:12:27,810 --> 01:12:28,910 Yeah. 929 01:12:28,944 --> 01:12:30,178 That's really good news. 930 01:12:31,613 --> 01:12:32,580 Yeah. 931 01:12:32,614 --> 01:12:33,748 It's a great result, 932 01:12:33,782 --> 01:12:35,516 especially after such a long time 933 01:12:35,551 --> 01:12:36,918 that we were able to find something. 934 01:12:36,952 --> 01:12:39,787 It was rather quite a clear profile. 935 01:12:39,822 --> 01:12:42,256 It's really good news, so... 936 01:12:42,291 --> 01:12:43,925 Yeah, I think it's the best result 937 01:12:43,959 --> 01:12:45,026 that you could've hoped for. 938 01:12:45,494 --> 01:12:46,661 Thank you. 939 01:12:46,695 --> 01:12:48,129 - Okay. - Have a good day. 940 01:12:59,641 --> 01:13:02,577 I have zero... There's zero part of me 941 01:13:02,611 --> 01:13:04,379 that feels bad for him. 942 01:13:04,413 --> 01:13:06,280 Literally, there's nothing. 943 01:13:11,587 --> 01:13:13,388 After weeks of surveillance, 944 01:13:13,422 --> 01:13:15,390 Raimondo finally had his opportunity 945 01:13:15,424 --> 01:13:16,991 to try and get the handwriting sample 946 01:13:17,025 --> 01:13:17,892 we needed. 947 01:13:37,513 --> 01:13:39,747 [music] 948 01:14:50,752 --> 01:14:52,119 [Gwen] When I saw the handwriting sample 949 01:14:52,154 --> 01:14:54,222 that Raimondo was able to get 950 01:14:54,256 --> 01:14:56,457 I was amazed at how similar it was 951 01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,493 to the handwriting I had been so familiar with 952 01:14:58,527 --> 01:14:59,460 as a little girl. 953 01:14:59,495 --> 01:15:06,534 [music] 954 01:15:28,891 --> 01:15:33,194 It feels a little bit like a point in time 955 01:15:33,228 --> 01:15:36,697 where I have now truly done everything I can 956 01:15:36,732 --> 01:15:40,501 and there's no possible move for me to make 957 01:15:40,536 --> 01:15:43,104 other than going to the prosecutor and saying, 958 01:15:43,138 --> 01:15:44,539 "This is everything we found." 959 01:15:44,573 --> 01:15:46,107 Please take a look and see 960 01:15:46,141 --> 01:15:47,375 "if you want to reopen the case." 961 01:15:47,409 --> 01:15:48,976 That's all we can ask for. 962 01:15:49,011 --> 01:15:50,444 I don't want him to be out there 963 01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:52,647 and just be able to do whatever he wants 964 01:15:52,681 --> 01:15:55,049 and go to summer camps just because nobody 965 01:15:55,083 --> 01:15:56,050 is trying hard enough. 966 01:15:57,185 --> 01:15:58,853 Now we have to wait and see. 967 01:16:10,499 --> 01:16:13,200 [Denis] I'll probably never stop crying about it, 968 01:16:13,936 --> 01:16:15,603 but I understand it a lot better. 969 01:16:15,637 --> 01:16:18,105 I can't change the past and what I did, 970 01:16:19,141 --> 01:16:20,875 so if you're going to evaluate me, 971 01:16:20,909 --> 01:16:22,743 evaluate before you see now. 972 01:16:22,778 --> 01:16:23,711 You know that kind of thing? 973 01:16:24,646 --> 01:16:26,280 I want to be that better person 974 01:16:26,315 --> 01:16:27,782 and I know I am, 975 01:16:27,816 --> 01:16:30,318 but I still have those thoughts, you know? 976 01:16:31,453 --> 01:16:32,887 That I did do that. 977 01:16:53,575 --> 01:16:54,642 Tell me how you're feeling. 978 01:17:09,524 --> 01:17:10,958 And one thing we talked about a lot 979 01:17:10,993 --> 01:17:13,928 is the need to separate the healing process 980 01:17:13,962 --> 01:17:15,363 from the legal process. 981 01:17:15,397 --> 01:17:17,598 That's one of the biggest learnings I've had. 982 01:17:17,633 --> 01:17:20,468 You know, if nobody validates me 983 01:17:20,502 --> 01:17:22,003 and if he never goes to jail 984 01:17:22,037 --> 01:17:24,605 or if he'd never gotten arrested 985 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,807 that doesn't mean that I can't heal. 986 01:17:26,842 --> 01:17:28,309 I feel better. I feel stronger. 987 01:17:29,311 --> 01:17:30,911 Computer hug. 988 01:17:30,946 --> 01:17:33,648 [Barbi] Okay, I've been taking care of myself 989 01:17:33,682 --> 01:17:36,417 and going to therapy and everybody 990 01:17:36,451 --> 01:17:37,518 that I'm close say, like, 991 01:17:37,552 --> 01:17:39,754 "You just seem so much lighter." 992 01:17:39,788 --> 01:17:41,956 Like I don't have that weight on me. 993 01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:44,692 I mean, I still... There's days that are hard, 994 01:17:44,726 --> 01:17:47,161 but generally speaking just been able 995 01:17:47,195 --> 01:17:48,262 to go through with it 996 01:17:48,296 --> 01:17:50,431 and to tell you guys and to share with you guys 997 01:17:50,465 --> 01:17:52,600 my story it's made such a difference. 998 01:17:52,634 --> 01:17:55,369 It's just so powerful to feel like you're not alone in it. 999 01:17:55,804 --> 01:17:56,671 Thank you. 1000 01:17:58,040 --> 01:17:59,840 As the abuse ended, 1001 01:17:59,875 --> 01:18:03,544 I had a very difficult time 1002 01:18:03,578 --> 01:18:07,248 connecting with my own first name, Keith 1003 01:18:07,282 --> 01:18:11,652 because my first abuser, his name was Keith. 1004 01:18:11,687 --> 01:18:13,688 And so I used my grandparent's name. 1005 01:18:15,023 --> 01:18:17,491 35 years I've been using that name 1006 01:18:17,526 --> 01:18:19,326 and it's only recently 1007 01:18:19,361 --> 01:18:21,796 that I've been able to feel more comfortable 1008 01:18:22,597 --> 01:18:23,998 with my name 1009 01:18:24,032 --> 01:18:27,968 and having been able to integrate 1010 01:18:28,003 --> 01:18:30,137 full three names, now I feel complete. 1011 01:18:30,172 --> 01:18:32,339 Now I use Keith Renard Brennen. 1012 01:18:33,909 --> 01:18:35,843 And feel comfortable with that. 1013 01:18:35,877 --> 01:18:38,579 I try to put myself in a position 1014 01:18:38,613 --> 01:18:40,881 where childhood abuse, that whole experience, 1015 01:18:40,916 --> 01:18:42,683 was the worst part of my life. 1016 01:18:42,717 --> 01:18:45,753 There seems to be a future beyond 1017 01:18:46,621 --> 01:18:49,090 trying to outlive pain. 1018 01:18:49,124 --> 01:18:52,693 I mean, whether like dream more about my life. 1019 01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:00,835 Music is my life. For me is a second language. 1020 01:19:01,903 --> 01:19:04,071 I wrote "March on" 1021 01:19:04,106 --> 01:19:07,775 because I wanted to feel better. 1022 01:19:07,809 --> 01:19:10,745 ♪ It hurts so bad ♪ 1023 01:19:10,779 --> 01:19:18,452 ♪ Dropping a melody that lasted all night ♪ 1024 01:19:18,487 --> 01:19:24,992 ♪ I know that joy comes in the morning light ♪ 1025 01:19:25,026 --> 01:19:28,796 ♪ So I march on to a new song ♪ 1026 01:19:28,830 --> 01:19:35,369 ♪ Cause something's marching to all unwavering love ♪ 1027 01:19:35,403 --> 01:19:38,806 ♪ And I move on ♪ 1028 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,476 ♪ And take no steps every day ♪ 1029 01:19:42,511 --> 01:19:49,116 ♪ Cause I know there has got to be another way ♪ 1030 01:19:49,151 --> 01:19:52,486 ♪ And bright on day, ♪ 1031 01:19:52,521 --> 01:19:55,589 ♪ So I march on ♪ 1032 01:20:16,111 --> 01:20:18,646 [Gwen] Thinking back to how I was or felt 1033 01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:20,447 when I started this whole process 1034 01:20:20,482 --> 01:20:22,049 and how I feel now, 1035 01:20:22,083 --> 01:20:24,318 it's a little bit like there's a different person. 1036 01:20:24,352 --> 01:20:27,488 It used to be this soup of confusion 1037 01:20:27,522 --> 01:20:28,756 of "I don't know if it's wrong," 1038 01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:30,925 "I don't know what he..." "Was I wrong?" 1039 01:20:30,959 --> 01:20:32,793 "Was he wrong?" "Was it even wrong?" 1040 01:20:32,828 --> 01:20:34,295 "Is he a bad person" "Is he a good person?" 1041 01:20:34,329 --> 01:20:35,229 "Is he nice?" "Is he not?" 1042 01:20:35,263 --> 01:20:36,530 "Is he going to do it again?" 1043 01:20:36,565 --> 01:20:38,799 That's... All those thoughts were in my head all the time, 1044 01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:41,402 but now I know that he was wrong, 1045 01:20:41,469 --> 01:20:42,403 and I wasn't. 1046 01:20:43,605 --> 01:20:50,611 [music] 1047 01:21:41,196 --> 01:21:45,666 ♪ I thought it was nothing more than a papercut ♪ 1048 01:21:45,700 --> 01:21:48,569 ♪ But it ripped me open like an envelope ♪ 1049 01:21:49,704 --> 01:21:52,172 ♪ And I thought I could stand the scars, ♪ 1050 01:21:52,207 --> 01:21:57,711 ♪ but I found myself crumpled on the floor ♪ 1051 01:21:57,746 --> 01:22:03,284 ♪ Being cured of all your letters with ♪ 1052 01:22:03,318 --> 01:22:06,587 ♪ I sled the darkness stains on my soul ♪ 1053 01:22:06,621 --> 01:22:09,590 ♪ They won't wash away, ♪ 1054 01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:15,195 ♪ they just only fade ♪ 1055 01:22:15,230 --> 01:22:17,298 ♪ I let it fade ♪ 1056 01:22:17,332 --> 01:22:19,433 ♪ I smooth myself out ♪ 1057 01:22:19,467 --> 01:22:23,737 ♪ Don't let it get under my skin no more ♪ 1058 01:22:23,772 --> 01:22:26,407 ♪ I let is fade ♪ 1059 01:22:26,441 --> 01:22:32,379 ♪ Until there's nothing left but papercuts ♪ 1060 01:22:32,414 --> 01:22:36,583 ♪ You thought you had me shred to pieces ♪ 1061 01:22:36,618 --> 01:22:39,787 ♪ But I put me back together now ♪ 1062 01:22:40,956 --> 01:22:44,091 ♪ Stronger now I'm good with love ♪ 1063 01:22:44,125 --> 01:22:49,196 ♪ It's like there's nothing on me anymore ♪ 1064 01:22:49,230 --> 01:22:54,501 ♪ Being cured of all your letters with ♪ 1065 01:22:54,536 --> 01:22:58,038 ♪ I sled the darkness stains on my soul ♪ 1066 01:22:58,073 --> 01:23:01,275 ♪ They won't wash away, ♪ 1067 01:23:02,377 --> 01:23:06,747 ♪ they just only fade ♪ 1068 01:23:06,781 --> 01:23:08,749 ♪ I let it fade ♪ 1069 01:23:08,783 --> 01:23:10,918 ♪ I smooth myself out ♪ 1070 01:23:10,952 --> 01:23:15,189 ♪ Don't let it get under my skin no more ♪ 1071 01:23:15,223 --> 01:23:17,825 ♪ I let is fade ♪ 1072 01:23:17,859 --> 01:23:23,764 ♪ Until there's nothing left but papercuts ♪ 1073 01:23:23,798 --> 01:23:25,899 ♪ I let it fade ♪ 1074 01:23:25,934 --> 01:23:28,002 ♪ I smooth myself out ♪ 1075 01:23:28,036 --> 01:23:32,306 ♪ Don't let it get under my skin no more ♪ 1076 01:23:32,340 --> 01:23:34,975 ♪ I let is fade ♪ 1077 01:23:35,010 --> 01:23:40,414 ♪ Until there's nothing left but papercuts ♪ 1078 01:23:40,448 --> 01:23:44,651 ♪ I won't let it. I won't let it ♪ 1079 01:23:44,686 --> 01:23:48,922 ♪ I won't let it bring me down again ♪ 1080 01:23:48,957 --> 01:23:50,457 ♪ I won't let it ♪ 1081 01:23:51,059 --> 01:23:53,193 ♪ I won't let it ♪ 1082 01:23:53,228 --> 01:23:57,965 ♪ I won't let it bring me down again ♪ 1083 01:23:57,999 --> 01:24:00,134 ♪ I let it fade ♪ 1084 01:24:00,168 --> 01:24:02,336 ♪ I smooth myself out ♪ 1085 01:24:02,370 --> 01:24:06,573 ♪ Don't let it get under my skin no more ♪ 1086 01:24:06,608 --> 01:24:09,309 ♪ I let is fade ♪ 1087 01:24:09,344 --> 01:24:15,182 ♪ Until there's nothing left but papercuts ♪ 1088 01:24:15,216 --> 01:24:17,885 ♪ I let is fade ♪ 1089 01:24:17,919 --> 01:24:23,724 ♪ Until there's nothing left but papercuts ♪